Delphi murder trial: Libby's blood was likely mixed with her tears, expert says

DELPHI, Ind. -- A pattern on the body of Delphi, Indiana, murder victim Libby German showed her blood was mixed with moisture, an officer testified at Richard Allen's trial. The officer said he believes that moisture was Libby's tears -- which led family members watching his testimony in the courtroom to audibly react.

Libby, 14, and her best friend Abby Williams 13, were walking along a hiking trail in rural Delphi when their throats were cut and they were left in the woods on Feb. 13, 2017. Their bodies were found the next day.

Allen was arrested in 2022 and has pleaded not guilty to murder.

Maj. Pat Cicero of the LaPorte County Sheriff's Department took the stand Monday. Cicero was not at the crime scene in 2017, but he said he studied the scene photos and various reports.

Abby's mother cried quietly in the courtroom as prosecutors showed close-up photos of the girls' faces, bodies, hands, feet and legs.

Cicero showed the jury an image of a blood stain on a tree. He explained it was a transfer stain, meaning it was left behind when a bloodied object touched it.

Cicero testified that the blood stains and patterns on the tree led him to him believe the attack on Libby started at the tree, with swipes of a weapon possibly causing the splatter on the tree.

Libby died from her wounds in a large pool of blood while leaning against the tree, Cicero said. He said he believes she was then dragged about 20 feet to where her body was found.

Abby was likely restrained or unconscious when she was killed, Cicero said, because there was no blood on her hands or arms and she was found with her hands raised vertically.

"Her final position is almost like she was boxing," he said.

Cicero said he's been to hundreds of crime scenes and described the position of Abby's body as very unusual. "I've never seen it," he said.

He also said Abby likely didn't die right away. "This would have taken some time," he said.

Allen has admitted to being on the hiking trail the day the girls were killed but he denies any involvement in the murders.

Also on Monday, Indiana State Police forensic scientist Stacy Bozinovski said no DNA tied Allen to the murder scene in Delphi, Indiana.

RELATED | Delphi murders trial: Extended video from victim's phone played in court

Jurors hear Richard Allen interview tapes

Tuesday began with the jury seeing two interviews Allen did with police before his arrest.

This was the first time Allen's voice has been heard in court.

Judge Frances Gull told the jury parts of the video were redacted because they don't pertain to the investigation.

First, the state played the Oct. 13, 2022 interview with Carroll County Sheriff's Office investigator Steve Mullin and Chief Deputy and now Sheriff Tony Liggett. The video was about 90 minutes long.

Allen described himself in the video. He explained he is a husband and father. He grew up most of his life in Mexico, Indiana and served in the National Guard. Allen also told Mullin and Liggett he had a heart attack in 2010 at the age of 37, and he suffers from depression and anxiety.

Allen said he worked at CVS since 2013, and before that for Walmart for 10 years.

The interview then turns to Feb. 13, 2017, the day Libby and Abby went missing. Allen said he was at his mom's house in Peru, Indiana while his wife was working. He estimated he left his mother's around 11:15 a.m., and arrived on the Monon High Trail around noon.

Allen couldn't remember exactly where he parked his car. When asked about his route, Allen told investigators, "The way that loops around."

Mullin asked Allen if there were any other way he would have driven to get there. Allen said, "maybe," but he always took the same route through downtown Delphi.

Allen said he told his wife he was on the trail the day the girls went missing. After the murders, she mentioned police were looking to talk to people who may have information. Allen went to the sheriff's office and set up an interview with Department of Natural Resources Officer Dan Dulan. Allen spoke with Dulan just days after Libby and Abby were found dead.

The interview ended up being misfiled, and was overlooked for nearly five years.

During his videotaped interview, Allen told Liggett and Mullin there were three girls he passed on the trail.

Allen said, "I don't really remember seeing anyone else that day. If I did, they didn't jump out at me."

Allen said he kept an eye on a stock ticker on his phone while on the trail. After leaving, he said he went home and continued to watch the stock market to "try and get rich." He said he considered it a hobby.

Allen described his time on the Monon High Bridge. He said he went out to a platform to watch fish, and then he left the trail at 1:30 or 1:45 p.m.

Allen said he saw cars parked at the Mears entrance to the trail when he arrived. When he returned to his car after the walk, Allen said there were no vehicles there any longer.

Liggett and Mullin asked him which car he drove to the trail. He said he normally drove a gray Ford 500, but took a black car when he drove outside of Delphi. Investigators believe he drove his black 2016 Ford Focus.

Allen told the investigators he was wearing blue jeans and a Carhartt jacket. He said he had a black and blue jacket at the time, but he believed he wore the black one. Liggett asked if he was wearing a hat, Allen said that if he was, it would have been the "skull cap" he kept in his jacket pockets. Allen said he was wearing tennis shoes or military-style boots.

The interview began to turn tense when Liggett and Mullin asked to see Allen's phone. Allen asked how long they would need it, and said he used Ting by Verizon for cellphone service. Allen said he didn't think he still had his phone from 2017, and believed his wife recycled it.

Liggett asked if they could confirm some of the information by searching Allen's home and extracting data from his current phone.

Allen then said, "Sounds like I'm going to be somebody's fall guy."

Mullin read a warrant to Allen to which he replied, "The conversation we're having, it seems like you think I might've done it."

Liggett then assured Allen they were just "crossing Ts and dotting Is," as they talked to people who were on the trail on Feb. 13, 2017.

Allen responded by saying, "I'm not going to have police going through my house and stuff."

Allen initially gave police the passcode to his phone, and then he changed his mind.

He told the investigators, "You know what. Let me talk to my wife before we do anything."

Mullin told Allen they wanted to search his home so they could rule him out.

Allen responded, "I had nothing to do with it. I don't want to be any more involved in it than I have to be."

The interview grows increasingly tense, as the investigators ask Allen if he is "Bridge Guy."

Allen said, "I've never met them," meaning the girls.

Allen continued to deny any involvement in the crime as they continued to show him a picture of "Bridge Guy."

"That is not me. If it's taken with the girls' phone, that is not me," he said.

Liggett said, "He's wearing the same clothing you told us. Just tell us what happened."

That's when Allen started to shut down the interview.

He said, "We're all done here. Your attitude towards me has changed. I feel like I'm being interrogated."

Allen went on to say, "You're not going to find anything to connect me to the murders; so, I'm not worried about it. So, arrest me or take me home."

Allen then became irate saying, "Are you arresting me? Are you arresting me?" He added, "You lost my trust. This is stupid. Now you're pissing me off."

After the interview ended, Allen was taken home. A few hours later, police arrived with a warrant, and they searched his property.

The jury then saw the interview Allen had with Indiana State Police investigator Jerry Holeman. It happened on Oct. 26, 2022.

The video begins with Holeman telling Allen what they took from his home during their police search, and what is being tested. Holeman asked if Allen ever loaned out any of his property, like his gun to anyone. He responded by saying "no."

Holeman asked Allen if he had his gun on him while walking on Feb. 13, 2017. He said he didn't have it with him.

In the video, Holeman tells Allen that his SIG SAUER matched the unspent cartridge from the crime scene. Allen laughs and says, "There's no way."

Holeman told Allen that the media was going to portray him as a monster, and the only way to get out of it was by telling the truth. Holeman then pressed Allen saying, "Why did you say, 'it's over' during the search warrant?"

Allen replied, "You've talked to people I worked with. You've talked to my neighbors." Holeman then told Allen, "The evidence shows you're involved." Allen went on to say, "There's no way a round from my gun was anywhere near the girls. You're trying to say I murdered two girls. I'm done. The damage is done. Just do what you're going to do."

Holeman continued by saying, "I don't think you're the one who killed them. Are you?" Allen said, "Anyone who knows me, know I could never do anything like that. I did not murder two little girls. You're trying to convince me to confess to something I didn't do."

In the video, Holeman goes to get a technician to swab Allen's mouth for a DNA sample.

Holeman follows up with saying, "The ball's in your court. I'm trying to help you. Why does all this evidence point to you?"

"I can't tell you," Allen said.

Holeman then tells Allen he has five witnesses who identified Allen on the bridge with the girls the day of the murders. Holeman testified on Saturday that he lied about that as an interview tactic. Allen responded to Holeman by saying, "It didn't happen. They didn't see me around the girls because I wasn't around them. I'm not going to admit to something I didn't do."

Holeman continued to press Allen, with Allen growing more and more agitated.

Allen said, "I'm not going to admit to something I didn't do. I'm done. If you're going to arrest me, arrest me. I'm done. I'm not talking anymore. This is ridiculous."

He went on to say, "I think nothing you have is going to show me around the murders of two little girls."

Holeman then went back to the unspent cartridge found between the girls' bodies. He explained to Allen how the testing tied it back to his gun. Allen then responded, "no way a bullet from my gun was found at a murder scene."

Holeman gives him several other opportunities to confess to the crime, in which Allen responded, "I didn't kill two little girls." Holeman then asked, "What did you do?" Allen answered, "I went for a walk on the trail, and I went home."

ABC News' Janel Klein contributed to this report.